Looking for birth of Jean Martin Larose - Breda approx 1764

Hi Sebastien, - This is rather sketchy. In what context did you find this? Did you find this name at a marriage? Or in a population register? Or did you find it somewhere in an online family tree?

It could be a child of French parents, but it could also have been recorded this way during the French period in the Netherlands (between approx. 1795 - 1813). At that time, given names in civil registers were recorded in French. Joannes became Jean, Martinus became Martin.

Did you perhaps find a clue to Breda while searching for ancestors of Eléna Maria Elisabeth La Rose (as found in a geneanet tree..?)

She was actually born as Hiltie Maria Elisabeth Laros, on 18th Nov 1816 in Breda.
stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/genealogische-bronnen/deeds/21cb4f77-de9a-a15c-9414-ad026e84bd87 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

Her parents married on February 27, 1815 in Breda (Netherlands)
Father of groom: Johannes Martens Laros
Mother of groom: Hiltje Davids Moreau
Groom: Joannes Laros (b. March 4, 1767, Leeuwarden)
Bride: Clara Verhees (b. September 24, 1791, Stratum, near Eindhoven)
Father of bride: Francis Verhees
Mother of bride: Elisabeth Gorissen
stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/genealogisch-bronnen/deeds/371f12d3-7dca-c848-77c7-09f10bbd270b (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

Baptism of the groom in 1767 in Leeuwarden:
Baptized on March 4, 1767 in Leeuwarden (Netherlands)
Father: Johannes Martens Laros
Mother: Hiltie Davids Moreau
Baptized: Johannes
allefriezen.nl/zoeken/deeds/a7b37127-cc46-48ac-9574-7b4c3c7c5f88 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

In the marriage act in 1815 in Breda one can read that the groom's parents were already deceased, that his father had been a soldier, and that the groom at that time was a 'koopman' ('koopman' can refer to: a traveling peddler or a specialized merchant). The groom's father died in Bolsward: allefriezen.nl/zoeken/deeds/41ced479-1aab-4055-b3a0-c60a254de763 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

The groom was later also recorded as Joannes Martens Laros or Joannes Martinus Laros, and the bride as Clara Maria Verhees.

Their first child, daughter Hiltie Maria Elisabeth Laros, was born on November 18, 1816, in Breda.
Perhaps you are looking for connections through her? I came across her name in a family tree on Geneanet, where it was recorded as Eléna Maria Elisabeth La Rose , and her mother's name was recorded as Clara Mina Feresse...phonetic for Clara Verhees...??? There were more children in this marriage.

Before carrying on...please indicate first if this is the family you are looking for?

Perhaps this link did not come through? stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/genealogische-bronnen/deeds/371f12d3-7dca-c848-77c7-09f10bbd270b (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

Try again...if not...just search on the names "Laros' and 'Verhees' via stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/genealogische-bronnen/persons (opent in een nieuw tabblad) >> uitgebreid zoeken.

Hello Helena, your findings matches. Is it possible to transcribe somehow its content as I don’t speak this language? Thanks

Hello Helena, I cannot read/understand this: stadsarchief.breda.nl/collectie/archief/bladeren-door-bronnen/registers?f=%7B%22search_s_type_title%22:%7B%22v%22:%22Notari%C3%ABle%20archieven%22%7D,%22search_i_periode%22:%7B%22v%22:%5B1819,1821%5D,%22d%22:%221819%20-%201821%22%7D%7D (opent in een nieuw tabblad) are you able to help?

Bladeren door bronnen = Browse through sources

The link you refer to takes you to the notary archives of various notaries in Breda and some places in this region around Breda, between 1819-1821. You will find Minute deeds [A minute deed is the original copy of a notarial deed] and the Repertoria [A repertorium (or register) is a chronological list of all deeds drawn up by a notary]

Whether searching for the name Joannes Martens Laros or Joannes Matteus Laros, you will have come across several references to these deeds, between 1813-1821. The name is sometimes listed in the notary registers as Joannes Mateus Laros, but the handwriting may not have been read correctly. It could just as easily be Joannes Martens Laros. He is described as a travelling merchant, staying at the De Witte Engel inn in Breda. Joannes Martens Laros is already mentioned in a deed, dated 25 September 1813 Breda. It concerns the sale/purchase of a house, warehouse, yard and plot of land, located on the corner of Sint Janstraat, east of Molenstraat, etc. etc.

I assume you also discovered that Joannes Martens Laros' profession was sometimes listed as travelling merchant and/or innkeeper at the births of his children between 1816 and 1822 in Breda.

...and that their names (Clara Verhees nor Joannes Laros) can no longer be found in the Breda archives after 1822. They probably left left Breda at some point. But when and where did they go to? Were they able to sell the house? Still need to try and find more records.

But where they went to ..?.. you can find some information about that in police reports from the Hannover police [ Hannoverschen Polizeiblatts] in 1848 and 1849, thus many years later. Perhaps you found this already?
Search via >> des.genealogy.net/hann_polizeiblatt/search (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

I searched on the name Larose (as it appeared in those police papers), see shortened link: tinyurl.com/4x23fcx3 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
One can download scans of those papers. Text is in German, but a translate program can help.

I sent part of these scanned papers through 'DeepL' , a translation program, and had it translated from German into English.
Could have some mistakes..., but as you can read they did not stay in Breda.

In the year 1848:
(5471) Rabouillet, Clara or Helene Marie, née Larose, born in Breda, all allegedly. She travelled on 15 August of this year with Charles François Dufresne from Lille, mentioned in No. (5470) of today's piece, on the railway from Lehrte to Hamburg, and continued on this route when the latter separated from her in Lüneburg. On 17 August of this year, she had her passport, mentioned in more detail below, passport in Hamburg to Brussels, but did not go to the latter place, instead remaining in Cologne; from there, on 30 August of this year, she sent a letter under the name Clara Larose to the director of the prison in Lüneburg, inquiring whether, under what name and for what reason a Frenchman had been in custody there since mid-August of this year; on 21 September of this year, she sent a letter without her signature to Charles Dufresne, who was in the detention centre in Lüneburg, from Cologne. In the meantime, she seems to have learned shortly afterwards from Dufresne's mother in Lille that the latter was imprisoned in Celle , which is why she went there, where she was discovered on 9 October of this year and was arrested with two children who were not registered with her in August of this year ; these two children are a. the alleged Maximilian Rabouillet, allegedly 11½ years old, b. an infant, apparently 3 to 4 months old. She names her husband as the French shawl merchant Maximilian Rabouillet. All of her previous statements regarding his place of birth and right of residence have been proven to be false. etc. etc. etc. ---- [ long report..]

In the year 1849
[6038] Rabouillet, Clara or Helene Marie, née Larose, born in Breda. All alleged, appearing in II. No. [5470
[5471]. - In a recently discovered hiding place, papers were found which confirm that her name is Clara Minna Josephine, née Larose, born in Breda on March 2, 1818, and is a daughter of Johann Martin Larose of Breda and Clara, née Verhees.
Johann Martin Larose later came to France with his wife and three daughters, namely the aforementioned Clara Minna Josephine Larose, Marie Larose, and Franziska Larose, as well as with a son, Adolph Andreas Larose. He set up a butcher shop in Hendecourt near Amiens. His wife, Clara, née Verhees, died there. His son, Adolph Andreas Larose, married Adolphine, née Magniez, and his daughter, Franziska Larose, married a certain Clery. After his wife's death, Johann Martin Larose handed over the butcher shop to his son-in-law, Clery, and began a door-to-door sales business with his daughter, Clara Minna Josephine. In June 1844, they arrived in Aeltre, Belgium, stayed there for some time, and were already in contact with the man named in II. No. [4884] [5470 5471] Charles Francois Dufresne from Lille, who was present, and the Belgian police already described these people as very skilled thieves who primarily exploited railway stations. Adolph Andreas Larose was caught and arrested in Belgium on July 26, 1844, committing a theft on the railway leading to Bruges. On August 15, 1844, Johann Martin Larose, his daughter Clara Minna Josephine Larose, and daughter-in-law Albine Larose, née Magniez, were arrested in Lille and were found in possession of lock picks, watches, purses, gold pieces, etc., all of which items were hidden in various parts of their clothing, even under the armpits of the two women and in the lining of Johann Martin Larose's hat. Since it was not possible to discover where the suspicious items found in their possession had been stolen, they were released on September 4, 1844, and each of the three people had separate passports issued by the Mairie in Lille, whose destinations differed from each other, but only in such a way as to give the appearance of being dissipated, while in truth all 3 persons, apparently to commit new criminal acts, moved to the same area.
etc. etc. etc... [ long report]