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Weyers-Bakel 1722

53 reacties

John Waayers (Waaijers)

Trying to find marriage record for Johannes Jan Weyers and Magdalena. Johannes and Magdalena had 6 children from 1714 to 1724. Johannes Jan died in 1724. Magealena migrated to Erp with the children. She passed away in 1758 in Erp.

Can only find two marriage records for a Johannes married to a Magdelena. One in Germert in 1697 and one in Geldrop in 1703.

I have found a few with the last name of Janssen born in Bakel that later became Weyers. Josephus Jacobi Janssen married to Maria Jan Wensch on May 19, 1726 wiewaswie.nl/en/detail/10553608 (opent in een nieuw tabblad). Then when he had a child he was listed as Josephus Jacobs Weyers wiewaswie.nl/en/detail/12182429 (opent in een nieuw tabblad).

53 reacties

  • Norah22 apr 2026, 13:48

    Dear John,

    Usually the marriage took place where the bride was living(or was born).
    When you look at some witnesses/baptism/, you would think there is a
    link to Belgium....
    Kind regards

  • John Waayers22 apr 2026, 16:01

    Thanks, I'll take a look.

  • Norah22 apr 2026, 18:38

    Witnesses to the first christenings were >>>

    Gerardus Broniaert ex Leodiensi.
    Jacobus Coquelet, priest at Spa(B.) -dieresi Leodiensi- > area Luik ?

    Leodium(latin) = Luik/Liège.

  • Helena23 apr 2026, 05:10

    Haven't been able to find the marriage yet. I think I do have her name though, and where she was born / baptized.
    The names of the witnesses puts one on the right track. Need to look elsewhere for the marriage.

    The godparent in 1714 and in 1715 had an unusual name by Bakel standards. Perhaps the name had been recorded incorrectly?
    It was noted that Gerardus Broniaert came from the diocese of Liège. Perhaps this Gerardus was the father, or a brother of Maria Magdalena? And perhaps he too came from Spa (Diocese of Liège), just as the godparent in 1717?
    The godparent in 1717: Petrus Jacobus [or Pierre Jacques ] Coquelet was parish priest in Spa, in the Diocese of Liège, from around 1692 until his death in 1730. P. J. Coquelet himself was born on 2 February 1663 / baptised on 3 February 1663 in Spa.
    agatha.arch.be/en/data/images/523/523_0500_000_02107_000/0_0129 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
    [You must log in (free) to view the scan.]

    Perhaps P.J. Coquelet was an old friend or a relative and from the same place as Maria Magadalena?

    Searching the alphabetical index of the parish registers of Spa, I came across both their names.
    agatha.arch.be/nl/search/genealogie/ (opent in een nieuw tabblad) Search before 1796 and select the place [ Spa] and filter on years.

    In Spa the name is recorded as Brognart.
    Parents: Petrus Brognard and Elisabetha Moumalle / Moumal, married in a Roman Catholic ceremony on 15 June 1675 in Spa.
    Children (there could be more..?):
    - Maria Magdalena Brognart, baptised on 12 November 1676 in Spa.
    agatha.arch.be/en/data/images/523/523_0500_000_02107_000/0_0193 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
    - Gerardus Brognart, baptised on 9 October 1679 in Spa
    agatha.arch.be/en/data/images/523/523_0500_000_02107_000/0_0205 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    Upon the death of Petrus Brognard on Christmas Eve in 1685 in Spa, it was noted that he was an alderman.

    But there is a story to it...
    See: Spa Museum document >>> spamuseum.be/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/HAS_11_septembre_1977.pdf (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
    In 1685, on December 24th, Pierre Brognard was killed near the Polleur fishpond by an assassin who was broken on the wheel on the spot. The parish registers indicate: 1685 On Christmas Eve, the honorable Pierre Brognard, alderman, was murdered at the Polleur fishpond.
    -- On Christmas Eve, December 24th, Pierre Brognard, alderman and captain of Spa, returning from the city of Verviers, was ambushed by a murderer called Mathy de Xhoffrij between the village of Polleur and the woods of Spa. After offering him powdered tobacco, the murderer killed him with a gunshot, believing that the said alderman had money. The murderer was caught at the fair in Malmedy on December 28th and brought prisoner to the Château de Franchimont. His trial was to be carried out on a cross in this form: (The text is accompanied by two analogous drawings, one of which is intertwined, representing a St. Andrew's cross, the arms with three crossbars) at the place where he had committed the murder on the flats near the large ponds in the woods of Spa.
    He was executed on January 27, 1686 (The cross bears the date 17). He had his arm and leg broken in two places, then received the coup de grâce on his forehead with a square iron bar. He was strangled on a cartwheel and placed on the said wheel, which was raised on a platform in the air. The least one can say is that justice was swift and cruel

    His widow, Elisabeth Moumal, died on 9 June 1692 in Spa, as the widow of the honourable Pierre Brognard, alderman.
    agatha.arch.be/nl/data/images/523/523_0500_000_02108_000/0_0150 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    Now we still have to find the answer to your question : The marriage date and place of Jan Weijers and Maria Magdalena Brognard....

  • Helena23 apr 2026, 05:21

  • John Waayers23 apr 2026, 06:58

    Thanks Helena. This is very interesting. You're way better than me at solving this mystery. I'm trying to find marriage record as it will also lead me to the origin of Jan Weijers. Was he born in Bakel? Don't know. I was thinking his birth name was Janssen as I found a couple of Janssen;s that were later Weijers (Weyers). But I may be going down the wrong rabbit hole.

    I have been told that in Bakel (maybe other towns), that they did not record last names. I suspect that there were some many Janssens (Johns sons) that they had to further indentify them by another name, So that particular family was by a body of water so they became Weijer or Weijers (Weyers), Can't prove that one.

    Anyway, thanks so much for the info. Are you a Weijers decendent? Or maybe you just enjoy helping us lost amatures? Lol

  • Helena24 apr 2026, 03:35

    The name of Jan Weijer's spouse noted as Magdalena Peter Bronaert in 1727 in the old judicial archives of Bakel. Confirms the previous info about her birth/baptism in Spa as daughter of a Peter.
    ORA 236 [ old judicial archives - the protocols of Bakel]
    MAGDALENA PETER BRONAERT, weduwe van JAN WEIJERS, inwoonster alhier, heeft uit kracht van schependecreet en tot alimentatie van haar kinderen, overgegeven aan JAN CUIJPERS, inwoner alhier, een sille hooi genaamd het Biesbeemptje, neven erve Dorothea van den Broeck, Aert Anthonissen en de Aa.
    3 december 1727
    familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSY6-C3FT?cat=koha%3A760498&i=2159&lang=en (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    No, I am not a Weijers' descendant, but I recognize the names as familiar names in the region where I grew up. Weijers, van de Weijer, de Weijer, Waaijers and other variants.

  • John Waayers24 apr 2026, 05:02

    Helena, that is so cool. Was that document indexed? I searched Family Search for anything with the name of Magdelena in Bakel and only got the birth of her children.

    I did find a record for the death of Johannes Weyers in 1724: bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/61288469-cffc-aa68-3168-bbdbad32049a?person=febd78f2-4648-11e3-a747-d206bceb4d38 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    So it makes sense that the property deed in 1727 states that she is a widow. Then I found several records in Erp for the Weijers family including Magdelena's death and the marriage of her sons Johannes (my great-great grandfater) and Peter. However, the last names were listed as Sweijers on some documents. and Weijers on others.

    My decendent Theordorus Sweijers (Weijers) was born to Johannes Weijers and Adriana Gerardi Jonckers on November 1, 1755 bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/e36abab0-b925-220f-bc98-4f23b1531387 (opent in een nieuw tabblad).

    So it makes sense that Magdelene sold the property when she moved to Erp (or about that time frame).

    One more question for you, are you living in or around Bakel?

    Another FYI, My great grandfather, Gerardus Theodorus Waaijers, moved from Rotterdam to ERP around the 1930's and passed away there in 1942. bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/8aad94ec-1ad0-6891-850f-d4fb7f148cf0 (opent in een nieuw tabblad).

    My great grandmother Margaretha Simons then moved to Helmond and passed away there in 1955. I was born in California in 1952 and never met her. My grand fathers brother Antonio Waaijers was also living in Helmond and moved to Austrlia after his mother passed away. I have one cousin, Gerardus, living in Austrlia who I communicate with. He was born in Helmond in the 1940's.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    John

  • Helena24 apr 2026, 06:28

    Bakel has always held my interest. Yes, I lived in and around this area. But I don't live there anymore.
    And yes, I have a few items re Bakel in my files. You can also access some via >>> erfgoed.gemert-bakel.nl/ (opent in een nieuw tabblad) >>> 12.016 Archief van de Schepenbank Bakel en Milheeze, 1611 - 1811

    Not sure if the following will lead you to the relevant files, will try to 'smooth' the path for you:
    collecties.gemeentearchiefgemert-bakel.nl/detail.php?nav_id=33-2&id=25676116&index=2 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
    go to >>> 3.2 Transporten, geloften en hypothecaties >> 236 , 1713 - 1732 >> download the relevant pdf file 236 Scans available (the digital imaages much better quality than Family Search), see scan 137 of 185

  • John Waayers24 apr 2026, 06:32

    Helena, thanks again.

  • Helena24 apr 2026, 07:36

    As I understand it: She had to sell that small piece of land [ by 'schependecreet = the magistrates' decision] for the maintenance of her children. -- A sille /zille used to be a small unit of area in certain regions, such as in Bakel. -- She didn't move to Erp untill later.

  • Helena25 apr 2026, 05:50

    It intrigues me that this marriage record remains untraceable. I have searched in Spa and did find a possible connection to the godparent, the priest P.J. Coquelet. Magdalena Brognart’s grandparents were Joannes Brognart, married to Magdalena Coquelet. I haven’t looked into this further, but it is easy to find out for yourself. -- Alas, the marriage of Jan Weijers to Magdalena Brognart has not been found in Spa.

    Bakel -- The names of the godparents should provide a clue, but some godparents were represented by others, probably neighbours or friends? You can see this from the note that usually accompanies them >> ‘noe’ [ with a suspension dash over it] - short for 'nomine'. [Nomine, loco: if the godfather and godmother were unable to attend, a stand-in could act on their behalf. This is then noted as ‘nomine’ (in the name of) or ‘loco’ or ‘in loco’ (in the place of). ] It may be that the godparent lived too far away, or that the person had to travel over difficult terrain, e.g. in winter.

    For example, at the first baptism in 1714 [ see scan via FS] , Maria Jansen is listed as ‘noe’ (= in the name of) Ida Jan Weijers. The latter was therefore not present at the baptism herself. The name seems so familiar to me, but I haven’t been able to place her yet. She could be the daughter of a Jan Weijers, or the wife of a Jan Weijers. The names of the godparents should provide a clue as to where one needs to look next.

    The other thing I have been looking at...when did they settle in Bakel? First child (?) born in 1714 in Bakel.
    The 'Hoofdgeldlijsten" (household registers) are lists of all residents, distinguishing between those over and under the age of 16. These lists were compiled annually by the aldermen. On this basis, a ‘poll tax’ was levied, whereby the head of the household was also required to pay for any live-in maids, servants, shepherds, foster children, etc. The Hoofdgeldlijsten - Bakel that have been preserved: 1705–1709, 1715–1740. They can be viewed at the archive in Gemert, but unfortunately not online. collecties.gemeentearchiefgemert-bakel.nl/detail.php?id=25679935 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
    I have a few notes in my files: these list Jan Weijers and his wife Magdalena, along with the children, among the 'vermogenden' (based on the means of the head of the household) until the year 1723. From 1724 onwards, the widow and children or some of them are listed among the 'onvermogenden' (usually not taxed, pro-deo). I have no further entries of them in the Hoofdgeldlijsten after 1732 / 1733.

  • Helena25 apr 2026, 05:58

    They had obtained some property in Bakel.
    Look at the same file >>> 3.2 Transporten, geloften en hypothecaties >> 236 , 1713 - 1732 . It starts with an index.

    Goort Willem Manders, inwoner van Venray, geeft over aan JAN WEIJERS, inwoner alhier, het 9e part in een huis, schuur en aangelag met landerijen, aan den Bentem in Bakel, in gebruik bij Teunis Jan Mansvelders. Nog het 3e part in een stuk hooiveld genaamd het Heijtveld, in gebruik bij Jan Willems de With. Nog het 3e part in een stuk hooiveld genaamd het Biesbeemptje, en het 3e part in een hooiveld te Helmond genaamd de Werdt. De transportant aangedeeld van de ouderlijke goederen. Last: een cijns van 5½ stuivers ten comptoir van de heer Suijckers te ’s-Hertogenbosch. 7 oktober 1714 [ see scan on page 15 and 16 / 185]

    DANIEL ALEXANDER MACCALLE, inwoner alhier, caverende voor CONSTANTINUS van ZUTPHEN als man en momboir van CORNELIKA MACCALLE, WILLEMINA MACCALLE, ISABELLA MACCALLE, meerderjarige kinderen van de heer DANIEL MACCALLE, in zijn leven drost van Stiphout, mitsgaders FRANCIS de ROULLOU, inwoner alhier, als vader van zijn twee onmondige kinderen, verwekt bij SOPHIA MACCALLE, geven over aan JAN WEIJERS, mede-inwoner alhier, 3 lopense teulland neven Jan Claessen van der Linden en Joost Reijnders. 13 maart 1717 [ scan op page 46 / 185]

    JAN ARIAENS als man en momboir van WILLEMIN JACOBS, inwoner van Aarle, geeft over aan JAN WEIJERS, inwoner alhier, een 6e deel van een huis, hof, aangelag, landerijen, hem nomine uxoris aangekomen, gelegen te Bakel aan den Bentum.
    Last: 5 stuivers + 8 penningen grondcijns aan de abt van Echternach. 1 december 1721 [ scan on page 82 / 185]

    MAGDALENA PETER BRONAERT, weduwe van JAN WEIJERS, inwoonster alhier, heeft uit kracht van schependecreet en tot alimentatie van haar kinderen, overgegeven aan JAN CUIJPERS, inwoner alhier, een sille hooi genaamd het Biesbeemptje, neven erve Dorothea van den Broeck, Aert Anthonissen en de Aa. 3 december 1727 [ scan 137 / 185 ]

  • John Waayers26 apr 2026, 03:47

    Thanks so much Helena. You have a treasure trove of information. I've been down today with a touch of virtgo.

    A quick question. On many of the documents you sent me, the first name is entered as Jan. On the index pages for BHIC as Johannes or Joannes. I know Jan is a usual nick for Johannes. So I guess the name apprears based on who was the origial recorder not necessarily the pesons legal name?

  • Helena26 apr 2026, 06:13

    In the Catholic church first names were ‘latinised’' in the registers. (Latin the universal language in the Catholic church) . The parish priest would ‘translate’ the everyday given name Jan into the Latin saint’s name Joannes, or as the priest thought was right. Everyone in the village knew that person only as 'Jan' and not Joannes .. etc.
    [ Btw: Bakel at that time was a village (about 600-800 residents) were everyone except very few were R.C.. It still is a village, about 6000 residents nowadays? ]

    In contrast in the Protestant church the entries were recorded as they were spoken and the name given by the parents to the minister (such as 'Jan' ) was recorded exactly as stated. There was no need to create a Latin variant.

    The aldermen’s court [ Schepenbank] was a local secular court. The administration of justice and administrative matters (such as deeds of sale or acknowledgements of debt) was about the ordinary citizens, these documents were drawn up in the vernacular (Dutch). Consequently, the name was recorded as the person was actually called and known in daily life. In the aldermen's register, you will therefore see the name as Jan Weijers rather than Joannes Weijers.

    Best to check the record in the index against the original. So much is already available online and often already linked to the scans. An index or summary may sometimes contain errors ...

  • CornelisVos26 apr 2026, 12:29

    Weijers, misschien een naam van herkomst
    , named after the place the came from, is a possibility?

    Vlierden is close to Bakel!

    Plaats van inschrijving:
    Vlierden
    Datering:
    09-01-1684
    Dopeling:
    Joannes op den Weyer
    Vader:
    Joannis Nicolai op den Weyer
    Moeder:
    Heilwigis
    Getuige:
    Petri Floymans
    Jacob Michaelis van de Cruys
    Maria Joannis Weyers

    deurnewiki.nl/wiki/index.php?title=De_verkoop_van_gemene_gronden_op_de_Weijer_in_1796 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

  • CornelisVos26 apr 2026, 12:38

  • John Waayers27 apr 2026, 18:53

    Thanks Cornelis. I've seen that record. I have also found a record for Jan Jacob van de Weyer married June 23, 1714 as a possible relative. bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/d5f5d0bb-2db2-cfdc-f874-8f537ecbcbf0 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    The records states he was born in Bakel and living in Bakel, His wife was from Deume. But can't find any birth records for him in Bakel. I'm suspecting his birth record is listed with a last name of Janssen. bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/8b70aa27-3742-377c-0ab0-b471c1ce2869 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    Tough to prove any of those with the current indexing. Maybe they'll be some more documents placed online at some future point that will crack the case.

  • John Waayers27 apr 2026, 18:57

    Helena,

    I appriciate the documents you posted. That was more than I had. I don't think we're going to find the marriage record with the current indexing. There has to be a document out there that has not be posted. Unless you have any ideas on the birth of Jan Weijers, I'm going put my search on hold for awhile. Been trying to crack this code for a year. It's out there, just can't prove it.

    Thanks for your help

  • Helena28 apr 2026, 05:16

    Magdalena [noted as widow of Jan Weijers] can still be found in some registers in Bakel after 1730. She continued to live in Bakel at least until 1756. Perhaps after 1756 she moved to Erp?
    She passed away in October 1758 in Erp.

    collecties.gemeentearchiefgemert-bakel.nl/detail.php?nav_id=65-2&id=25775445&index=0 (opent in een nieuw tabblad)
    (not indexed yet) , but the owners and/or occupiers are listed on the site of
    heemkundekringbakelenmilheeze.nl/huizenqouhier-van-bakel-en-milheeze (opent in een nieuw tabblad)

    From 1736 onwards, the village councils were required to draw up five-yearly house registers listing the owner and principal occupant. In the Bakel 'Huizenkohiers' she remains listed as the occupant of a small house ['huijske' on Den Bentum.
    Number 132 ('huijske'):
    1736 up to and including 1756 Widow of Jan Weijers owner and occupant.
    In the next house census in 1761, Jan Schepers is listed as the owner and occupant.

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